Metagame SV Doubles UU - New Sample Teams & VR

DPL Summary:

Preface:
So coming into this season, I had the expectation that I would be playing SV DOU considering I had done very well in DWCOP going 3-0 in playoffs. So I was a little miffed at the beginning that I was assigned to DUU, but my reputation of being a wacky builder proceeded me and so that was how my team decided to go. Throughout this season, I basically solo-built all my teams with some testing help from Frania. With that said, I ended up enjoying this season more than I thought I would, especially since the main DOU tier was kinda a shitshow in terms of meta. I had one of my best individual seasons in a team tour, and glad to have gotten another team tour win (and again going undefeated in playoffs).

Team Dump:
I'll talk a little on each team and some of my main takeaways from this season.

Week 1 vs. Actuarily (L)
:iron-jugulis: :talonflame: :toxtricity: :sableye: :gallade: :iron-treads:
This first week was literally my first week ever playing DUU (and I also had to play early because of VGC regionals), and so I wanted to keep it simple and play an HO style. This was built around the concept of Sableye which felt very strong in tests, but ultimately my main takeaways here were that the quality of Pokemon I used were just not high enough. I ended up making some mistakes during the game which I definitely could have won, but the individual mons I used were not that good at the end of the day.

Week 2 vs. xHys (W)
:iron-valiant: :iron-moth: :salamence: :gastrodon: :tsareena: :tinkaton:
Going into this week, I wanted to use Iron Moth and Valiant, as they seemed like the strongest mons, and so I approached with a very balanced team with a bulkier backside (Tink/Tsareena/Gastro) to support this core. Throughout most of this season I ended up trending towards a FWG core + Tinkaton, which I felt during this pre-shift meta was just the strongest and most flexible team structure. Notably this team performed extremely well in tests, going like 15-0.

Week 3 vs. big pichu (L)
:iron-valiant: :iron-moth: :salamence: :gastrodon: :tsareena: :tinkaton:
I didn't have a ton of motivation for building this week, since I felt this team had basically solved most of the meta (and I'll stand mostly by that), and so I decided to run back the same team with some slight changes (I didn't go back and change the paste here, but I had previously had like ZHB on Tsareena the previous week). This ended up hurting me, and some people were perhaps not super happy that I decided to rerun the same team. I had played p poorly in the actual game, saving my tera for far too long when popping an early tera definitely could have won me the game.

Week 4 vs. Nephtyrix (W)
:iron-moth: :pachirisu: :quaquaval: :vivillon: :tinkaton: :tsareena:
This week I had a crazy idea, which ended up working super well, which was built around Quaquaval. Although this game didn't showcase the full power of the mon, I did end up winning the game. Notably this team also performed extremely well in tests, I think I only dropped a game or 2 out of like 10-15 tests. I actually thought that this was a good thing to keep this tech relatively hidden, even though I had pulled it out, I wanted to use it again when we needed the win more, and you will see me revisit the core of Pachi + Quaq again later down the line. This was probably the most slept on core from the entire tournament as it easily is one of the best 2 mon cores in the tier and nobody was really trying it even after this game.

Week 5 vs. AIRedzone (L)
:gyarados: :volcarona: :toedscruel: :tinkaton: :rotom-wash: :baxcalibur:
This was the first week of shifts, and I built a very similar team structure to the previous week - Gyarados as a sweeper water with double redirection support. I was pretty accurate in evaluating the mons that ended up being strong in this post shift meta, being mostly built around Gyara/Volc/Bax instead of previously around the Paradox mons, but was very weak to Bax on this team, with basically every slot being negative into it. I still had good chances to win this game, but messed up the positioning battle pretty crucially and ended up losing the game.

Week 6 vs. Frixel (W)
:pincurchin: :iron-moth: :iron-leaves: :gyarados: :iron-jugulis: :tinkaton:
With many of my prior weeks being balance and setup oriented teams, I ended up opting to go a much more offensive route with Pincurchin Offense. Since terrain is almost uncontested in this tier, and there exists a lot of really strong Quark Drive mons in the tier. This also gives them all an extra item for flexibility, allowing me to play LO and Covert Cloak, which I ended up using a lot in the last few weeks since in CTS the item is just super powerful on getting swing turns.

Week 7 vs. bage1 (W)
:quaquaval: :pachirisu: :gyarados: :volcarona: :baxcalibur: :tsareena:
Remember what I said about Quaquaval + Pachirisu? Well, in a win or go home week for us, I pulled it out again, since I knew that it would be a good bet even in the new meta with shifts. Although Gyarados seems like a bad matchup on paper, it can't do that much to outright threaten Quaquaval, as defensive sets get stopped by redirection support, while offensive sets struggle to setup and kill Quaquaval (requiring the use of Tera). I surrounded it with much of the other broken mons in the tier, and grabbed a win. This game did a much better job showing off the power of Quaquaval, as 1 free turn can easily snowball out of control, and this ended up being part of the catalyst to me experimenting and ultimately bringing this mon to Portland Regionals (where I got top 64 with the duck).

Semis vs Eisenherz (W)
:iron-moth: :gyarados: :hariyama: :oranguru: :bellibolt: :bisharp:
I had barely touched TR this entire tournament, so I decided to go with a semiroom team for the semis. I ended up getting decently lucky, getting key paras and dodges this game, although at the end of the day that's going to be the game you play with Drifblim. That said, I think the team was pretty interesting overall, as Bellibolt + Oranguru is a very strong combo if teams don't have the right tools to deal with it.

Finals vs Actuarily (W)
:hydreigon: :azumarill: :scream-tail: :iron-moth: :sandy-shocks: :iron-leaves:
This week I was betting on Rotom-W coming seeing that I had super high Gyarados usage, so I built a team around Hydreigon + other mons that mostly could abuse Rotom. I also tried to use a lot of mons that I had not used much throughout the season, including Scream Tail, Azu and Shocks, just to mix it up. This team ended up being a lot about Scream Tail with Hydreigon also providing a strong tera option, and Actuarily ended up bringing a Discharge + EQ based team that didn't have a ton of playing room, so I ended up winning this game pretty cleanly.

Closing Thoughts:
Overall, I think the meta was not really balanced at all during any of the weeks, while there certainly was things that were underexplored, for most of the pre-shift meta, Valiant/Moth/Jugulis/Shocks/Azu were clearly just a step above the rest of the mons and the entire meta revolved around these mons. Similarly, in post shift, we got a bit more variety but Gyara/Volc/Bax all came in to be the top meta threats instead. I think by nature of this being a lesser played tier, it just will never end up being very balanced, and as the tournament ended, the new shifts will probably shake up the meta again to be something else. I do think the idea of Quaquaval + Pachirisu was extremely powerful throughout both of these metas and was significantly underexplored. While I did think it was fun to play these games, I probably won't touch DUU again unless I'm slotted in to play this tier again in a future DPL. That said I am happy I finished with the (joint) best record in DUU, especially with literally no exp in the tier and no support until playoffs (although Frania did their best to help).
 

Actuarily

is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
Moderator
With the conclusion of DPL and some new tier shifts, the DUU VR has had a new voting slate! Thanks to everyone who participated.


:Brute Bonnet: Brute Bonnet New -> 2

:Maushold: Maushold New -> 3

:Meowscarada: Meowscarada New -> 4

:Samurott: Samurott New -> UR

:Typhlosion: Typhlosion New -> UR

:Wo-Chien: Wo-Chien New -> 2

:Baxcalibur: Baxcalibur New -> 2

:Brambleghast: Brambleghast New -> UR

:Decidueye: Decidueye New -> UR

:Ditto: Ditto New -> UR

:Hydreigon: Hydreigon New -> 3

:Iron Leaves: Iron Leaves New -> 4

:Rotom-Wash: Rotom-Wash New -> 3

:Volcarona: Volcarona New -> 3

:Zoroark-Hisui: Zoroark-Hisui New -> 5

:Salamence: Salamence 2 -> 3

:Scizor: Scizor 2 -> 3

:Lucario: Lucario 4 -> UR

:Pawmot: Pawmot 4 -> 5

:Tinkaton: Tinkaton 3 -> 2

:Toxtricity: Toxtricity 4 -> 5

:Vivillon-Fancy: Vivillon-Fancy 4 -> 5

:Breloom: Breloom 3 -> 4

:Corviknight: Corviknight 4 -> 5

:Gardevoir: Gardevoir 4 -> 5

:Indeedee: Indeedee 4 -> 5

:Iron Thorns: Iron Thorns 4 -> 5

:Rabsca: Rabsca 4 -> UR

:Slither Wing: Slither Wing 3 -> 4

:Slowking: Slowking 4 -> 5

:Talonflame: Talonflame 3 -> 4

:Tauros-Paldea-Blaze: Tauros-Paldea-Blaze 4 -> 3

:Toxapex: Toxapex 4 -> 5

:Kilowattrel: Kilowattrel 3 -> 5

:Mudsdale: Mudsdale 5 -> UR

:Bellibolt: Bellibolt UR -> 4

:Foongus: Foongus UR -> 5
 
With the conclusion of DPL and some new tier shifts, the DUU VR has had a new voting slate! Thanks to everyone who participated.


:Brute Bonnet: Brute Bonnet New -> 2

:Maushold: Maushold New -> 3

:Meowscarada: Meowscarada New -> 4

:Samurott: Samurott New -> UR

:Typhlosion: Typhlosion New -> UR

:Wo-Chien: Wo-Chien New -> 2

:Baxcalibur: Baxcalibur New -> 2

:Brambleghast: Brambleghast New -> UR

:Decidueye: Decidueye New -> UR

:Ditto: Ditto New -> UR

:Hydreigon: Hydreigon New -> 3

:Iron Leaves: Iron Leaves New -> 4

:Rotom-Wash: Rotom-Wash New -> 3

:Volcarona: Volcarona New -> 3

:Zoroark-Hisui: Zoroark-Hisui New -> 5

:Salamence: Salamence 2 -> 3

:Scizor: Scizor 2 -> 3

:Lucario: Lucario 4 -> UR

:Pawmot: Pawmot 4 -> 5

:Tinkaton: Tinkaton 3 -> 2

:Toxtricity: Toxtricity 4 -> 5

:Vivillon-Fancy: Vivillon-Fancy 4 -> 5

:Breloom: Breloom 3 -> 4

:Corviknight: Corviknight 4 -> 5

:Gardevoir: Gardevoir 4 -> 5

:Indeedee: Indeedee 4 -> 5

:Iron Thorns: Iron Thorns 4 -> 5

:Rabsca: Rabsca 4 -> UR

:Slither Wing: Slither Wing 3 -> 4

:Slowking: Slowking 4 -> 5

:Talonflame: Talonflame 3 -> 4

:Tauros-Paldea-Blaze: Tauros-Paldea-Blaze 4 -> 3

:Toxapex: Toxapex 4 -> 5

:Kilowattrel: Kilowattrel 3 -> 5

:Mudsdale: Mudsdale 5 -> UR

:Bellibolt: Bellibolt UR -> 4

:Foongus: Foongus UR -> 5
why does it say the requested pages (attachments) cannot be found?
 

Actuarily

is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
Moderator
So after some discussions with the duu council, it was agreed to push back the date of the DUU Seasonal by one week, so that round one goes up on Sunday, July 2nd.

This was done so that drops to DUU will have occurred in a post-home meta. It just didn’t make sense to have round 1 be in a pre-home meta, and the rest of the tournament post home.
 
I believe the Kami quadro, Tornadus, Thunderus, Landorus, and Enamorous are quite strong, and need to be in like, Tier 2 or 3 right now. When was the VR last updated?
 

Actuarily

is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
Moderator
So with the recent tier shifts and duu tour play, the duu council has voted on a new VR. Results below:

1694624651026.png

1694624722187.png


:Abomasnow: Abomasnow New -> 4
:Arcanine: Arcanine New -> 4
:Arcanine-Hisui: Arcanine-Hisui New -> 3
:Articuno: Articuno New -> UR
:Azelf: Azelf New -> UR
:Dragapult: Dragapult New -> 3
:Enamorus: Enamorus New -> 2
:Enamorus-Therian: Enamorus-Therian New -> 3
:Farigiraf: Farigiraf New -> 3
:Garchomp: Garchomp New -> 2
:Gastrodon: Gastrodon New -> 5
:Glastrier: Glastrier New -> 5
:Gyarados: Gyarados New -> 4
:Hatterene: Hatterene New -> 5
:Hoopa-Unbound: Hoopa-Unbound New -> 3
:Houndstone: Houndstone New -> 3
:Lilligant-Hisui: Lilligant-Hisui New -> 5
:Mesprit: Mesprit New -> UR
:Mew: Mew New -> 3
:Moltres-Galar: Moltres-Galar New -> 5
:Murkrow: Murkrow New -> 5
:Regidrago: Regidrago New -> 5
:Regieleki: Regieleki New -> 5
:Roaring Moon: Roaring Moon New -> 2
:Sneasler: Sneasler New -> 4
:Spectrier: Spectrier New -> 3
:Sylveon: Sylveon New -> 4
:Thundurus: Thundurus New -> 1
:Thundurus-Therian: Thundurus-Therian New -> 5
:Tsareena: Tsareena New -> 4
:Typhlosion-Hisui: Typhlosion-Hisui New -> UR
:Tyranitar: Tyranitar New -> 3
:Uxie: Uxie New -> UR
:Zapdos: Zapdos New -> 2
:Zapdos-Galar: Zapdos-Galar New -> 5
:Zarude: Zarude New -> UR
:Iron Jugulis: Iron Jugulis 1 -> 2
:Iron Moth: Iron Moth 1 -> 3
:Iron Valiant: Iron Valiant 1 -> 4
:Azumarill: Azumarill 2 -> 3
:Baxcalibur: Baxcalibur 2 -> 3
:Sandy Shocks: Sandy Shocks 2 -> 4
:Skeledirge: Skeledirge 2 -> 4
:Tinkaton: Tinkaton 2 -> 3
:Wo-Chien: Wo-Chien 2 -> 3
:Gallade: Gallade 3 -> 5
:Hariyama: Hariyama 3 -> 5
:Hippowdon: Hippowdon 3 -> 5
:Hydreigon: Hydreigon 3 -> 5
:Iron Leaves: Iron Leaves 3 -> 5
:Iron Treads: Iron Treads 3 -> 5
:Oranguru: Oranguru 3 -> 4
:Rotom-Wash: Rotom-Wash 3 -> UR
:Salamence: Salamence 3 -> 5
:Scream Tail: Scream Tail 3 -> 4
:Tauros-Paldea-Fire: Tauros-Paldea-Fire 3 -> 5
:Tauros-Paldea-Water: Tauros-Paldea-Water 3 -> 5
:Volcarona: Volcarona 3 -> 4
:Bellibolt: Bellibolt 4 -> 5
:Breloom: Breloom 4 -> 5
:Bronzong: Bronzong 4 -> 5
:Ceruledge: Ceruledge 4 -> 5
:Chansey: Chansey 4 -> 5
:Lycanroc: Lycanroc 4 -> 5
:Meowscarada: Meowscarada 4 -> 5
:Mimikyu: Mimikyu 4 -> 5
:Slither Wing: Slither Wing 4 -> UR
:Talonflame: Talonflame 4 -> UR
:Toedscruel: Toedscruel 4 -> UR
:Bisharp: Bisharp 5 -> UR
:Camerupt: Camerupt 5 -> UR
:Cinderace: Cinderace 5 -> UR
:Corviknight: Corviknight 5 -> UR
:Dragalge: Dragalge 5 -> UR
:Foongus: Foongus 5 -> UR
:Gardevoir: Gardevoir 5 -> UR
:Iron Thorns: Iron Thorns 5 -> UR
:Kilowattrel: Kilowattrel 5 -> UR
:Krookodile: Krookodile 5 -> UR
:Pawmot: Pawmot 5 -> UR
:Primeape: Primeape 5 -> UR
:Quaquaval: Quaquaval 5 -> UR
:Rotom-Heat: Rotom-Heat 5 -> UR
:Rotom-Mow: Rotom-Mow 5 -> UR
:Sableye: Sableye 5 -> UR
:Slowking: Slowking 5 -> UR
:Toxapex: Toxapex 5 -> UR
:Toxtricity: Toxtricity 5 -> UR
:Vivillon-Fancy: Vivillon-Fancy 5 -> UR
:Zoroark-Hisui: Zoroark-Hisui 5 -> UR
:Pincurchin: Pincurchin UR -> 5
 

Idyll

xD
is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
RBTT Champion
Derby Teamdump: Going 5-0 with the Enamorus + Thundurus Combo!

Preface


When I signed up to play for Derby, I went in with the desire to play to play only either DUU or DOU, only signing up for those two formats initially. I even put every other format in my Tiers NOT played just to guarantee I don't get slotted into something I didn't want to play. At some point though, I decided to edit my sign-up; thinking I could maybe throw my team a bone in case we get screwed over, I put ADV into my tiers played. In hindsight, I should have just removed ADV from my Tiers NOT played. This lapse in judgement lead to me being a 17.5k buy to start in ADV; when I woke up to the news, my reaction could be summed up to "xD?" as I knew myself I was worth 5k MAX for my ADV DOU playing and building ability. After Week 1 in ADV went disastrously despite my best efforts, I knew I had to get out if I wanted to not be the biggest overpay of the tournament. After a bit of "negotiation" with Amaranth and zoe, I was put into DUU, and the rest was history...

The first week I actually started for DUU, though, I genuinely had no SV DUU experience at all. Zero games. Nada. Zilch. Though I usually try to, I didn't get into participating into the DUU circuit for this Gen just yet. In approaching the metagame, I was essentially tabula rasa; I knew nothing, but perhaps that was for the best as the format felt very much in my hands to (de)construct. A quick survey of replays from the ongoing DUU Seasonal was what it took to get me up to speed, and I essentially had no teambuilding biases due to this being my first foray into the format; I was essentially free to attack the format as I see fit, judging DUU Pokemon as either good or bad unprejudiced.

When attacking a new format, what I usually do is: go to the teambuilder and sort by BST. Then by Attack and Special Attack. Then by Speed. Basically look at which Pokemon have the most value by stats alone; these Pokemon tend to be the most self-explenatory, and the more simpler ones to play. Of course, I'm also consulting the VR and Seasonal replays to contextualize certain Pokemon as needed; otherwise, I would have ended up running 680 BST Hoopa-Unbound, and my managers would have swiftly sent me back to ADV jail. Enamorus quickly stood out to me: base 135 SpA is practically the highest in the format, it has a strong spread STAB attack, and base 106 Speed is also really high for an offensive piece. In addition, I was familiar with the Contrary + Eerie Impulse combo, and I realized the hoodrat Thundurus was also in the format. I knew just how good Thundurus is in lower power formats like other Oldgen DUUs because of how strong it can be as a utility Pokemon, and I am an experienced Thundurus pilot thanks to XY and BW. When I put the core on my builder, it just clicked for me.

Week 2 - vs Actuarily (Redemption) // Kakigori Galaxy Astronaut
:samurott-hisui::thundurus::tsareena::volcarona::enamorus::sneasler:
I wanted to go with stuff that I was familiar with, at the very least. Kept it simple and contained. Samurott-H is here because the guy was straightforward: be tanky and lead, get Spikes up, trade damage—an impossible line to screw up. Tsareena is here to protect my Enamorus from Scizor, as well as maybe Arcanine-H Extreme Speed. The Volcarona set is funny; it's a VGC set I picked up from the high-powered Ubers formats of SS VGC. It maintains the base utility of RP Volcarona that I want to keep, which is to just tank a hit or two; at the same time, I also had the option of applying pressure with QD. The QD can also end up being useful for RP as well, the boosted Special Defense surprisingly nifty in the times I took this team to ladder afterwards. Sneasler is there for utility reasons; it has Fake Out, Dire Claw is not a fair move, and it has base 120 Speed, which outruns enemy Enamorus and pretty much anything else that matters. It's really good at maintaining offensive space by pinning offensive threats and keeping them from annoying my own attackers.

I had three Tera Normals, all on my non-essential Pokemon. This is because Basculegion was in the format. I'm only really going to Tera those Pokemon in extreme situations, as otherwise I would prioritize more key Teras. My philosophy here is that these defensive tech Teras are really powerful when used to invalidate otherwise polarizing threats. This trend of having Tera Normal on my teams continue up to Week 5, after which Basculegion-F rose to DOU.

I ended up facing a near mirror. I opted to force early fights with my Sneasler and Samurott-H; the idea was that I probably won't need them for later anyway, considering the enemy team composition, so getting chip on Thundurus + a Spike was good for facilitating a win with Enamorus. Managing to force Tera on enemy Samurott-H felt good as that meant I no longer had to worry about Actuarily's Tera being used to trade off my Enamorus or something as game-ending. My one misstep was not realizing Tailwind from enemy Enamorus as a possibility; I didn't consider it purely because it didn't make sense (Enamorus seemed unlikely to be carrying a support move as the focal point of the offense, and Thundurus + Scizor + ESpeed Arc-H should have been more than enough control), but it did expose my Enamorus to a possible sussy hit from their Samurott-H. Turn 4, when they sent in Arcanine-H, I just went for the hard read of "yeah Actuarily forgot about self-Scary Face" because Scizor in Tailwind was just plainly more dangerous to me, with BP invalidating self-SF and essentially forcing me to go Tsareena while they still have doubled Speed. Maaaybe Arc-H could have Protected; but it really looked like CB on that team. I digress. Anywho, I escape my first game in DUU with a close win for my team.

Week 3 - vs Nephtyrix (Kingdras) // Vessel
:sneasler::thundurus::wo-chien::azumarill::volcarona::enamorus:
Enamorus + Thundurus worked, and there was no need to fix what wasn't broken so I deceded to bring it again. This time, I wanted to bring Wo-Chien because it seemed like a generally strong statcheck to the DUU metagame. In particular, Wo-Chien also seemed fantastic into what I scouted from Nephtyrix; their recent games were essentially exclusively with Double Redirection + Azumarill + Basc-F + EnamThund, which AV Wo-Chien would be absolutely Thanos into. AV Wo-Chien is really great as a utility mon because its Ruin ability + massive defensive stats + Pollen Puff and Knock Off made it great at matching threats while being really annoying to play against. BD Azumarill is here because I wanted another strong wincon and Azumarill is one of the best the format has, and I had redirection in my Volcarona; I didn't particularly mind that it was bad with Wo-Chien, as at +6 it should still kill most things anyway and I had agency in whether or not Wo-Chien stays on the field. I had Rain Dance on Thundurus as utility for possible weather disruption, and it was also useful for Azumarill as rain + Tera Water lets me OHKO Basc-F with +6 AJet.

This game I knew all I really had to do was take out Enamorus early, after whcih Wo-Chien should be able to carry. Early game went fantastic as Nephty went for the instant Tera on Enam against Thundurus and Sneasler, both of which were the Pokemon I specifically wanted to have to deal with Enamorus anyway. Rest of the game went easy after that; a lot of it was simply making sure I had neutral trades and didn't randomly lose into possible BD Azu.

Week 4 - vs KeanuGrindingArc (J*ckeys) // Millenium Mother
:enamorus::azumarill::sneasler::wo-chien::volcarona::thundurus:
After a second week of bringing Enam + Thund, I started becoming wary of Tyarnitar + Tsareena, a combination which is really strong into Enam + Thundurus due to having strong anti-priority while also enabling dangerous threats to my team; Tyranitar + Houndstone + Lycanroc, for example, is a comp would have been strong into the Enam + Thund archetype, with Lycanroc naturally faster. Smudgerox, Keanu's teammate and manager, was having a good run in DUU seasonal at this point and was the person I was primarily scouting to prepare for in this match-up, expecting them to provide support to Keanu. They also did have a TTar team.

Still, at some point this week, I kinda hit a wall as I ended up unable to come up with a team I liked. I basically said, fuck it, they don't deserve that much respect (in-game) and I'll just use last week's team because I'm better. It helps that the Week 3 team was really good, anyway.

Match-up went fairly well, in general. The enemy team featured really strong and bulky threats that Enamorus could easily rip apart, but I had two big obstacles in opposing Scizor and Volcarona. Fortunately for me, these very two threats were played overaggressively in the early-game, and all I then had to do was to make sure my wincon gets into a safe, winning position. Getting the Flame Body burn on Scizor helped a lot; I recognized that Keanu could make an aggressive play to catch my Volcarona, and my thought process basically went towards "okay but I don't care lol", knowing I was likely never losing Volcarona that turn regardless and all I really wanted was to chip Scizor down with Thundurus. Turns 3 and 4 were mostly me trying to put myself in a position where I remove only one Pokemon on the field unless I had boosted Volcarona; as Keanu had Azumarill and Garganacl, I was trying to avoid a scenario where they get to send in two Pokemon freely, as these Pokemon setting up seemed really annoying especially with Tera still available. My Turn 4 QD instead of Heat Wave was more about posturing than an actual attempt to push damage / sweeping, I just wanted to compel Keanu into not setting in front of me because I was winning in most neutral positions at that point

By turn 10 onwards, I probably could have forced a position with boosted Enamorus earlier, but I was very wary of Regieleki. My one losecon at that point was Regieleki being able to force a kill on my Enamorus unexpectedly. My caution was rewarded as my Wo-Chien actually got to Knock Off the Regieleki, revealing it had Choice Scarf which would have let it outrun Scary Faced Enamorus.

Week 5 - vs Demantoid (Cavalry) // Chromatica
:scream tail::enamorus::thundurus::iron moth::brute bonnet::garchomp:
Enamorus + Thundurus was working too well, and I really saw no reason to deviate from it when I'm constantly winning so I knew I had to bring it again. However, this time I was facing Demantoid, a vetaran with OTT experience to their name—a player I knew I had to give the utmost respect in the builder, knowing that they definitely would notice EnamThund's vulnerability to sand archetypes.

Thus, I went with a different approach by using physical Enamrous with Superpower, which would subvert the match-up into a relatively more winning one, and the rest of the team was built to account for the difference. I instead went with Iron Moth + Brute Bonnet instead of my previous combos. Brute Bonnet is muc bulkier than Volcarona is, especially defensively, and it has a better defensive typing to match sand pieces such as Tyranitar, Garchomp, Houndstone, and Lycanroc; the set I'm running runs enough Speed for neutral Tyranitar, which also gives me enough confidence to just Seed Bomb any Azumarill. Iron Moth is there as a generally strong attacker, its being a Fire-type making it good for checking Steels for my Enamorus, and its base 110 Speed letting it check opposing Enamorus in neutral positions. Scream Tail is here to provide dual screens support, and its access to a fast Fake Tears has dual utility, offensively for pairing with Iron Moth and defensively for giving my Enamrous +2 Special Defense. Thundurus has Sunny Day as a way to reset weather just like RD on my previous two teams, but I chose to have sun instead because of strong synergies with Protosynthesis and Iron Moth. Sun-boosted Fire Blast from Iron Moth with boosted SpA from Booster Energy is essentially a delete button for any bulky threat I want dealt with, such as enemy Zapdos. Garchomp is here as a breaker with SD and its good typing into Tyranitar.

My constant fear of sand bore fruit as I ran into the exact match-up I prepared for this game, Tyranitar + Tsareena. Still, early-game was rough as I actually had no great lead. While Iron Moth would have been the best against most of their team, I didn't want to end up forced out by Lead Tyranitar, as that meant not having Booster Energy for later. I instead ended up leading Garchomp into Enamrous, a nightmare scenario. I took the time to set screens as Garchomp did its best, then segwaying into a more favorable position with Iron Moth + Screens versus Demantoid's Enamrous and Spectrier. Turn 2 I briefly considered switching out Garchomp into my Iron Moth, expecting Moonblast / Springtide, to have an extra sack, but it didn't seem worth to risk my Iron Moth taking an EP, which Demantoid was free to fire off that turn.

After my Iron Moth got the KOs on Spectrier and Enamorus, it was then traded off by a Tyranitar that revealed itself to be Choice Scarf. I was actually quite spooked by this, as a few flinches (particularly on my Enam) would lose me the game considering the rest of my team was slower and unable to hit back. Turn 7, I sent in my Enamorus into enemy TTar, and perhaps this is where the set switch-up came into play; as I've used special Enamorus exclusively the weeks prior, and since I had a team that gave no reason for Demantoid to suspect it not being a special set, I was actually then free to get the TTar KO with Tera Fighting Superpower. A special set would have otherwise been in more danger, taking neutral damage from Rock Slide with Tera Fairy, and their Tinkaton which looked like it had an AV would have been in a better position to get a trade. I was then able to snowball the position from then on as Enamorus swept the rest of their team.

Semifinals - vs Nephtyrix (Kingdras) // things with wings
:klefki::enamorus::thundurus::brute bonnet::iron moth::roaring moon:
This week was notable because of Tier Shifts: Garganacl and Basculegion-F notably rose to DOU, while Roaring Moon was back in DUU. Basculegion-F rising meant that I no longer had to be prepared for its strong Last Respects, and Houndstone pales in comparison. Thus, I stopped running Tera Normals as a tech choice, thinking I no longer needed to.



Preparing for Nephty didn't actually have me doing much. I had it pretty established at this point that me using EnamThund was the sauce, so I was sure about using it again. At the same time, Nephty didn't really have much different from their last scout that necessitates a big deviation in approach. This week was really more about me just showing up with as solid of a team as I could have. From experience laddering, I realized that the EnamThund comp actually struggles a bit with Maushold; thus, I decided to bring Klefki this week, a Steel-type with Prankster Screens support.

I essentially just made a twist of my last week's team, with Klefki instead of Scream Tail and Roaring Moon instead of Garchomp. This team also has special Enamorus instead of physical; I think special is generally better overall because it's better on tempo with the immediate boost + Tera Fairy Springtide, especially at this point where I proved not even my worst match-up can beat me. Roaring Moon in general was a better fit for the teamcomp thanks to its speed and design which lends itself to being played more like a pivot; it's CB on the team because I wanted to play it more as a way to break and clean. Roaring Moon also benefites from the Sunny Day on Thundurus, with CB Tera Dark Protosynthesis Throat Chop dealing obscene damage to anything it hits. Klefki has Steel Beam because it's a good and fun move that lets me deal significant damage while also giving me a free switch to something, most of the time. It used to have Metal Sound, which functioned just like last week's Scream Tail, but it doesn't come up as useful defensively with special Enamorus and was unnecessary outside of extreme scenarios with Iron Moth.

This game was definitely the sussiest out of me out of all the games I've played. Seeing the Basculin on Team Preview gave me what effectively felt like a heart attack; I just stopped running Tera Normals, and then I run into this? was what went through mind at that point. I even did !dt to see its stats, and somehow it didn't register in my head that it wasn't even a Ghost-type, a fact I only realized after the game. In a state of shock and delirium, perhaps, Turn 1 I figured my RM was safe from Thundurus because it was a Dark-type; however, it was not safe from a Scary Faced Enamorus, which then promptly disposed of my RM and leaving me with a Pokemon down for seemingly no reason. Perhaps I could have lead with Iron Moth instead, but I didn't want to run into a lead Azumarill (I didn't want to Tera Grass immediately too). With Nephty's Tera then committed, at least I was then more willing to engage with my Iron Moth. Iron Moth gets the trade and avoids massive damage from Earth Power thanks to Tera Grass.

From that point on, I felt that all I needed to do was KO / deal significant chip to Volcarona, which was the one thing stopping Enamorus from morbing Nephty's entire team. It was then incredibly fortunate for me that Iron Moth then crit Volcarona, 100-0. Whoops! Rest of the game then plays out with me taking it as slow as possible versus the enemy Thundurus and Brute Bonnet, because I wanted to not lose randomly to BD Azumarill. I also realized that Enamorus could win at this point and beat Azumarill / Basculegion with support from Thundurus and Brute Bonnet, so it was then just a matter of not throwing the game. Eventually, I was then able to confirm the win with Tera Grass Iron Moth (which was also strong agaisnt the rest of their team at that point), and I was able to secure the 5-0.
 

Actuarily

is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
Moderator
We have updated our sample teams, thanks to everyone who contributed.

The Doubles UU Seasonal has been completed, congrats to Hys for winning!

Replay stats below:
SV DUU

Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Basculegion-F      |   79 |  27.24% |  54.43% |
| 2    | Roaring Moon       |   68 |  23.45% |  61.76% |
| 3    | Iron Moth          |   64 |  22.07% |  45.31% |
| 4    | Enamorus           |   63 |  21.72% |  57.14% |
| 5    | Brute Bonnet       |   58 |  20.00% |  50.00% |
| 6    | Thundurus          |   55 |  18.97% |  58.18% |
| 6    | Garchomp           |   55 |  18.97% |  47.27% |
| 8    | Tinkaton           |   53 |  18.28% |  45.28% |
| 9    | Hoopa-Unbound      |   50 |  17.24% |  58.00% |
| 10   | Sneasler           |   45 |  15.52% |  55.56% |
| 10   | Arcanine           |   45 |  15.52% |  48.89% |
| 12   | Arcanine-Hisui     |   44 |  15.17% |  43.18% |
| 12   | Sandy Shocks       |   44 |  15.17% |  43.18% |
| 14   | Mew                |   43 |  14.83% |  46.51% |
| 15   | Zapdos             |   40 |  13.79% |  60.00% |
| 15   | Dragapult          |   40 |  13.79% |  52.50% |
| 17   | Azumarill          |   39 |  13.45% |  46.15% |
| 17   | Scizor             |   39 |  13.45% |  43.59% |
| 19   | Iron Jugulis       |   37 |  12.76% |  54.05% |
| 20   | Iron Valiant       |   36 |  12.41% |  27.78% |
| 21   | Moltres-Galar      |   30 |  10.34% |  63.33% |
| 21   | Tyranitar          |   30 |  10.34% |  43.33% |
| 23   | Sylveon            |   29 |  10.00% |  62.07% |
| 24   | Gyarados           |   28 |   9.66% |  53.57% |
| 25   | Volcarona          |   27 |   9.31% |  55.56% |
| 26   | Wo-Chien           |   26 |   8.97% |  69.23% |
| 26   | Spectrier          |   26 |   8.97% |  42.31% |
| 28   | Samurott-Hisui     |   23 |   7.93% |  47.83% |
| 29   | Maushold           |   22 |   7.59% |  50.00% |
| 29   | Rotom-Wash         |   22 |   7.59% |  50.00% |
| 31   | Baxcalibur         |   20 |   6.90% |  65.00% |
| 31   | Farigiraf          |   20 |   6.90% |  50.00% |
| 33   | Hariyama           |   18 |   6.21% |  55.56% |
| 33   | Tsareena           |   18 |   6.21% |  33.33% |
| 35   | Garganacl          |   17 |   5.86% |  52.94% |
| 36   | Bronzong           |   15 |   5.17% |  33.33% |
| 36   | Salamence          |   15 |   5.17% |  33.33% |
| 38   | Skeledirge         |   14 |   4.83% |  64.29% |
| 38   | Maushold-Four      |   14 |   4.83% |  57.14% |
| 38   | Murkrow            |   14 |   4.83% |  42.86% |
| 41   | Pawmot             |   13 |   4.48% |  69.23% |
| 41   | Thundurus-Therian  |   13 |   4.48% |  38.46% |
| 43   | Iron Treads        |   12 |   4.14% |  75.00% |
| 43   | Klefki             |   12 |   4.14% |  41.67% |
| 43   | Houndstone         |   12 |   4.14% |  33.33% |
| 43   | Arboliva           |   12 |   4.14% |  33.33% |
| 47   | Meowscarada        |   11 |   3.79% |  63.64% |
| 47   | Gastrodon          |   11 |   3.79% |  54.55% |
| 47   | Quaquaval          |   11 |   3.79% |  36.36% |
| 50   | Scream Tail        |   10 |   3.45% |  60.00% |
| 50   | Regidrago          |   10 |   3.45% |  50.00% |
| 50   | Talonflame         |   10 |   3.45% |  30.00% |
| 53   | Abomasnow          |    9 |   3.10% |  55.56% |
| 53   | Enamorus-Therian   |    9 |   3.10% |  44.44% |
| 53   | Hippowdon          |    9 |   3.10% |  44.44% |
| 53   | Thwackey           |    9 |   3.10% |  22.22% |
| 57   | Lycanroc           |    8 |   2.76% |  50.00% |
| 58   | Orthworm           |    7 |   2.41% |  42.86% |
| 58   | Ceruledge          |    7 |   2.41% |  42.86% |
| 60   | Glastrier          |    6 |   2.07% |  50.00% |
| 60   | Toxapex            |    6 |   2.07% |  50.00% |
| 60   | Chansey            |    6 |   2.07% |  50.00% |
| 60   | Toedscruel         |    6 |   2.07% |  50.00% |
| 60   | Iron Leaves        |    6 |   2.07% |  50.00% |
| 60   | Gallade            |    6 |   2.07% |  33.33% |
| 60   | Qwilfish-Hisui     |    6 |   2.07% |  33.33% |
| 60   | Slowking           |    6 |   2.07% |  33.33% |
| 68   | Hatterene          |    5 |   1.72% |  60.00% |
| 69   | Pincurchin         |    4 |   1.38% | 100.00% |
| 70   | Articuno           |    3 |   1.03% |  66.67% |
| 70   | Bisharp            |    3 |   1.03% |  33.33% |
| 70   | Breloom            |    3 |   1.03% |   0.00% |
| 73   | Regieleki          |    2 |   0.69% |  50.00% |
| 73   | Uxie               |    2 |   0.69% |  50.00% |
| 73   | Persian-Alola      |    2 |   0.69% |  50.00% |
| 73   | Lurantis           |    2 |   0.69% |  50.00% |
| 73   | Oranguru           |    2 |   0.69% |  50.00% |
| 73   | Indeedee           |    2 |   0.69% |  50.00% |
| 73   | Tauros-Paldea-Aqua |    2 |   0.69% |  50.00% |
| 73   | Overqwil           |    2 |   0.69% |  50.00% |
| 73   | Charizard          |    2 |   0.69% |  50.00% |
| 73   | Zapdos-Galar       |    2 |   0.69% |  50.00% |
| 73   | Coalossal          |    2 |   0.69% |  50.00% |
| 73   | Flamigo            |    2 |   0.69% |  50.00% |
| 73   | Perrserker         |    2 |   0.69% |   0.00% |
| 73   | Tornadus-Therian   |    2 |   0.69% |   0.00% |
| 73   | Slowbro-Galar      |    2 |   0.69% |   0.00% |
| 73   | Rotom-Heat         |    2 |   0.69% |   0.00% |
| 89   | Lycanroc-Dusk      |    1 |   0.34% | 100.00% |
| 89   | Azelf              |    1 |   0.34% | 100.00% |
| 89   | Zoroark-Hisui      |    1 |   0.34% | 100.00% |
| 89   | Hawlucha           |    1 |   0.34% | 100.00% |
| 89   | Toxtricity         |    1 |   0.34% | 100.00% |
| 89   | Floatzel           |    1 |   0.34% | 100.00% |
| 89   | Mesprit            |    1 |   0.34% | 100.00% |
| 89   | Sableye            |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 89   | Copperajah         |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 89   | Glaceon            |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 89   | Goodra             |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 89   | Camerupt           |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 89   | Haxorus            |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 89   | Slowbro            |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 89   | Dondozo            |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 89   | Polteageist-Antique |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 89   | Rotom-Mow          |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 89   | Zarude             |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 89   | Hydreigon          |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 89   | Clodsire           |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 89   | Barraskewda        |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 89   | Typhlosion-Hisui   |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
 

bagel

formerly bage1
is a Tiering Contributoris the defending DOU Circuit Champion
Scattered VR noms after derby + ssnl

Quick thoughts: I really like this tier I don't think Thund+Enam is broken at all or even deserves to be as centralizing as it has been in derby tbh. I also think that a bunch of lower tier guys can probably be dropped from the VR entirely with the pretty huge power increase with Home+DLC but don't wanna go through nomming a bunch of guys down.

:Roaring-moon: Roaring Moon 2-> 1
Don't know how long this guy will be around for but it is easily best TW and DD sets can win on their own. Knock off is such a huge buff, nothing wants to take a hit even from speed booster Moon. Moon's ability to threaten huge damage into Thund+Enam often forces the pair into a) self Eerie Impulse and/or b) Tera Enam defensively, both of which are suboptimal plays for the pair and make them way easier to deal with for the rest of the game.

:Iron-jugulis: Iron Jugulis 2 -> 4
Whenever Roaring Moon is in the tier I see 0 reason to use this guy, but even when Moon is gone it feels very outclassed by the other speed control and special attacking options, booster speed sets don't force Thund+Enam into certain lines like Moon can.

:Baxcalibur: Baxcalibur 3 -> 2
Can threaten pretty much the whole tier with massive damage if positioned correctly, maybe the best tera abuser in the tier with its huge bulk and snowball potential.

:Scizor: Scizor 3 -> 2
SD kinda fucks up the entire tier if given any space and getting Bug Bite makes it way easier to destroy Farig/Tsar. Banded is also extremely usable.

:Sneasler: Sneasler 3 -> 2
AV Poison Touch is soooo splashable, maybe the best glue mon in the tier. Extremely good speed tier and offensive profile + Dire Claw is a cheap move. I'm not as big a fan of Unburden sets as they can be unreliable compared to other setup options but they can easily beat unprepared teams.

:Tyranitar: Tyranitar 3 -> 2
Getting Knock is epic and nothing wants to switch into offensive sets but I think its massive bulk is its best attribute. It has a really good matchup into Enam+Thund as they basically need to tera Fairy + Eerie Impulse to KO while ttar can do this:

0 Atk Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Enamorus: 372-440 (105.6 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO

or 2hko with slide if you want.

:Iron-Valiant: Iron Valiant 3 -> 4
This guy is just too frail and outclassed by the other offensive Fairies in the tier + trolled by Thund.

:Tinkaton: Tinkaton 3 -> 4
Might be controversial but Tink felt like mega dead weight whenever I used it. Awkward speed tier, does no damage and not a god enough defensively / utililtywise to justify being such a momentum sap in a pretty offensive tier.

:Murkrow: Murkrow 4 -> 3
Prankster TW good!

:Iron-Treads: Iron Treads 5 -> 3
Tier is really starved for ground types and this guy even resists Fairy and OHKOs Enam! Earthquake is a good move, its also the best hazard removal around.

some guys I think are kinda cool but don't want to officially clog up lower tiers with even more shitters.

:Lycanroc-Dusk: Lycanroc Dusk
Cool-mu into Thund+Enam forcing speed control while still threatening with Accelerock.

:bisharp: Bisharp
Strong Sucker prankster immune that doesn't die to random fairy move.

:Lurantis: :Dusclops: :Clefairy:
Lurantis gets superpower now which is epic, the other guys can fill their standard niches and probably be usable.
 
Hello, I'm rank 1 in DUU. I got there with a pretty sweet team ft. Bright Powder, Sand Veil Garchomp.
:garchomp::tyranitar::sylveon::zapdos::hariyama::farigiraf:
https://pokepast.es/9020720da5b66fc4

Due to the nature of the DUU ladder--that there aren't all that many people laddering at the same time--you're bound to end up facing the same people over and over again in the same session. With that in mind, the paste above is the base version of the team, but I make frequent changes to lock down recurring foes. Farigiraf and Zapdos frequently change items (one of them always has Goggles) and I've run tera poison, fairy, bug, and ghost in addition to grass on Tyranitar. Afterwards though, I return to this version of the team.
Also, Clear Amulet is definitely a better item on Garchomp, but brightpowder rules. I go between tera normal (for stupid, stupid, dumb, whyisthisevenallowed Last Respects) and tera poison, and I'm not sure which is better.

I think I disagree with some of the VR top placements, but anyways here is how I'd recommend playing the team against some popular stuff.
:thundurus::enamorus:
Most guys in TR stop this. Farigiraf blocks thund shenanigans and ttar skill slide is great into them. Hariyama has heavy slam to dunk Enam but you can also slap wide guard onto him somewhere (I don't think you need to and I've never used it). Poison Chomp eats the enam hit and KOs back, but if you're nervous that they'll make the extremely impossible earth power read, Zapdos can eat a +2 LO Springtide and set tailwind. You also have sand veil/bp (turns 100% accurate moves to 72%) and discharge to bail you out. I've never found this core to be a problem. TBH I would campaign Sylveon is the better fairy, Enamorus pretty much requires Thundurus to be scary, and unless it is running a damage boosting item Springtide Storm won't KO Garchomp. Thundurus is tier 1 is kind of surprising to me as well. It's a pain to build around but there are enough full stops to this guy that I don't think it ends up actually being more viable than the best guys in tier 2.
:brute-bonnet:(+:Azumarill:/:Volcarona:/:Scizor:/:Iron-Moth: etc.)
I am honestly quite surprised to see Brute Bonnet highly ranked. I don't know how you could manage to build a team that is weak to it. There are a million spread moves to choose from, goggles is great on a whole bunch of pokemon, and it is weak to approximately a billion types. Regardless, this team has goggles, Sleep Talk Sylveon, Flame Orb Hariyama, Tera Grass Tyranitar, loads of spread moves, and all pokemon on this team can hit Bonnet super effectively. That might be why I rate the mushroom low, but honestly it was completely accidental. I guess this whole paragraph can be summed up with "not a concern".
:Iron-Jugulis:
I refuse to believe this is viable.
:Roaring-Moon:
This is actually kinda scary because it is basically forced to Tera against this team and there are all sorts of mind games as to what it will turn into. If you try to finesse around it, you run the risk of it clicking DD with a boosting energy Atk boost and then you have to deal with that on top of the funny type change button. Generally, you just kind of have to accept that the opponent is going to get the skillful tera off and when sylveon Hyper Voice does 25ish% into tera steel/fire or 55% into flying and gets KOd, you blow up the roaring moon with something else.
:Spectrier::Houndstone::Iron-Moth::Dragapult:
I just wanted to call these guys out as threats because I think they're a bit under appreciated on the VR. I think Nasty Plot Spectrier is top 5. Last Respects is just so mindbogglingly dumb to keep allowed that anything that can use it should be on the radar. Houndstone is a pain for this team specifically because you might accidently activate sand rush for it, but I think this move even makes Basculin usable. Please ban LR. I also wanted to call out Iron Moth and Dragapult because I just think they're neat.

I looked at discord this morning and saw people upset, arguing that there are too many broken elements in DOU. Well those people are absolutely right. The solution for you, as it was for me, is to play DUU because it feels epic. You never run up against Iron Hands, Flutter Mane, Ogerpon, or either Basculegion form, and only rarely play against Last Respects.

here are some replays.. wish I’d saved more lol!
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesuu-1944317515-4k9molktznnn1qgh054n1m1kxj5h8s5pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesuu-1945036005-0suhmti124obg35b5zwcy8io9tjtgn9pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesuu-1962281811-0p3ctqus039wdcis4xkvnobliqs5d3upw



1695841500910.png

1695841523536.png

1695841894754.png


Edit: Lol Farigiraf moves up to DOU, RIP
When I was defending rank 1/winning it back I used this instead https://pokepast.es/582fd2e6afb9f888. It needs work but it's not bad.
 
Last edited:
Posting because it needs to be said, but can we please see a quickban on Basculegion? This mon is very clearly not DUU material and only dropped because of an unban in the tier ABOVE that happened pretty late into the month and even then it still almost made the cut for DOU with a 4.450% use rate. There is no reason that a pokemon so dominant in the tier above this one should be allowed in as a result of these circumstances and I do not think it is beneficial for the development of the tier to have it around when there are so many other drops to be tested as well.
 

Actuarily

is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
Moderator
With the recent usage stats update resulting in Basculegion, a hotly contested topic in DOU, joining the tier, the duu council has decided to hold a quickban vote on its status. Since this is the first time we’ve ever tiered in duu, we also decided to include another topic that’s been on people’s minds, evasion abilities (Snow Cloak and Sand Veil).

The results of the votes are below:
Actuarily: Ban. The viable checks in DUU are limited to:
  • Sucker Punchers like Brute Bonnet, Samurott-Hisui
  • Fast darks/ghosts like Dragapult, Iron Jugulis
  • Priority Speed control like Thundurus, Murkrow
  • Certain walls like Wo-Chien & Garganacl.
With the addition of flip turn to its arsenal, arguably the best way to beat Basculegion is to attack first, so the best checks are the sucker punchers & fast ghost/darks. These options are much more limited in DUU, without popular options like Rillaboom & Tornadus to help in attacking first. That being said, with some of its checks being some of the most popular Pokémon in the format (Thundurus, Brute Bonnet, Dragapult), I would have liked to see it in action first to see how it fits in the metagame.

Lord Death Man: Basculegion-Female was, with worse stats, already considered problematic by a substantial portion of the userbase; in addition to having 20 more attack, Politoed dropped into the tier at the same time, enabling the use of Swift Swim sets, while Basculegion has also added Flip Turn to its movepool, which fits easily on sets due to Basculegion’s access to two high base power stabs and relative lack of competitive coverage moves due to how quickly Last Respects scales out of control.

n10siT: Ban is my vote. As LDM stated, Bascu-F was already a problematic mon and the male variant is a strictly better version of that Pokemon. Not to mention the addition of Politoed creates a more viable way to use the Swift Swim set than relying on Thundurus, and the Scarf Adaptability set is just as dangerous.

Nido-Rus:
Ban. Nothing to say here, this being in DUU is a usage tiering slip-up given it only has DOU usage for one week of the month usage is taken from. As is, it's a considerably stronger option for something that was already somewhat problematic.

RelicanthPrimal:
Recent survey over half of dou wanted it banned from dou, obviously broken in duu esp now they also have rain setter. And should just be removed cuz dropped too late.

Actuarily: Do Not Ban. There’s two possible questions here, about uncompetitiveness and whether they are broken. While evasion abilities could be considered uncompetitive through a similar lense as evasion clause, I think they are much less so as evasion abilities have a much lower ceiling as far as evasion goes. As for whether they are broken, I also don’t think so, as many others have alluded the main users are Garchomp, Gliscor, Articuno, and Glaceon, none of which I feel are overpowering in the metagame with evasion abilities.

Lord Death Man: Ban. Evasion abilities have always been discussed as an annoying but mostly acceptable aspect of the meta, but with the addition of Garchomp, an actually viable abuser, it becomes immediately obvious that evasion abilities have the ability to swing games in a way that is out of both player’s hands. Much like Kings Rock getting banned from OU in multiple gens, the issue here is that we now have a perfectly acceptable mon who can abuse them, highlighting the uncompetitive nature of these abilities.

N10siT: Ban. Sand Veil Garchomp is an absolute menace and while Sand Veil doesn’t necessarily meet the “broken” criteria, it absolutely meets the “uncompetitive” criteria in my eyes. Luck management is part of Pokemon, but there’s really no management to be done when you see a Garchomp in sand, you just have to hope you hit.

Nido-Rus:
Ban. Inherently uncompetitive in nature. Often doesn't come into play, but there's no proper counterplay for when it does - the simple inherent pressure it gets for free is significant, especially for a pokemon with good bulka and speed that can set up.

RelicanthPrimal
Ban. uncompetitive, just dice rolling and with mons theres lots of rng management but others involve more strategies like positioning etc.

Resulting in 5/5 ban votes for Basculegion, and 4/5 ban votes for evasion abilities. Thus each of Basculegion, Snow Cloak, and Sand Veil will be banned from DUU, tagging DaWoblefet to implement, thanks!

Thanks to everyone who participated and posted regarding these elements!
 

bagel

formerly bage1
is a Tiering Contributoris the defending DOU Circuit Champion
DUU Invitationals Teamdump

This was probably my favorite DUU metagame in SV so far (not just because I won in it lol). In my opinion the DLC1 metagame managed to have a fun and high power level with many previous DOU-level threats without anything feeling overbearing as we had good high power options not only offensively but defensively as well. I hope the new DLC doesn't shake things up too much but then again that is part of why DUU is so fun.

Top 8 vs big pichu

:ting-lu::gyarados::orthworm::thundurus::enamorus::baxcalibur:

Inspired by a Reg C VGC team that tyo originally ported to DOU around the time of DLT. I mostly just wanted to use Orthworm and surrounded it with a bunch of stats + flying types. This was special Enamorus for a while but you can't boost it with Thundurus when it is behind a substitute so I switched to a phyisical set.

:ting-lu::dondozo::scream-tail::scizor::brute-bonnet::spectrier:

This started with Encore+Disable Scream Tail and Spectrier and kinda morphed into a weird hazard-stack team because I'm addicted to Ting-Lu. This team was a bit all over the place and I improved on the idea in the next round.


Top 4 vs Actuarily

:Ting-lu::arcanine::ogerpon-cornerstone::spectrier::sneasler::dondozo:

Kinda-sorta upgraded version of the last team. I really like the Ting-Lu + Arcanine + Ogeropon-C core, as well as Yawn Dondozo. Dondozo is funny because it has 3 viable abilities and I have used all 3 depending on the team.

:weezing::iron-jugulis::ogerpon-cornerstone::great-tusk::volcarona::gyarados:

Weezing felt really strong in this meta as sooooo many top Pokemon and strategies relied on their abilities. Even after the nerf with Booster Energy I think it is still going to be a strong pokemon in DUU because the speed dynamics are less important than in DOU/VGC. Actuarily had been using Sun a lot and is known for playing rain so I thought this would be a good bring.

(bonus team)
:manaphy::ogerpon-cornerstone::thwackey::iron-moth::landorus::thundurus:

Built this team and passed it to Nido after I didn't end up using it in my set. I think Manaphy is super strong and rain overall actually fairs better with more defensive structures instead of offensive. This one is still quite offensive but it is definitely not anything hyper-offensive.


Finals vs Nido

:wo-chien::pelipper::manaphy::Thundurus-therian::arcanine::sneasler:

A much more defensively inclined rain team focusing on supporting Manaphy. I'm a really big fan of AV Thundurus-T, it trades super well into a lot of the metagame. Nido's weezing did give this team some problems but the defensive core managed to hold things together. This is probably my favorite DUU team that I have built.

:ting-lu::scizor::dragapult::thundurus::volcarona::ogerpon-cornerstone:

Very simple team with the gameplan of getting up rocks and sweeping with Band Dragapult + SD Scizor. I really like them as an offensive combo, they cover each others weaknesses very well. Leer Thundurus is a very funny tech move that I am a fan of which ended up actually coming in clutch in the game.
 

Actuarily

is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
Moderator
Some exciting updates that have happened in the last week for DUU!

Firstly, congratulations to bage1 for winning the DUU Invitationals! Both bage1 and Nido-Rus were in the money, and both have been paid their winnings. Thank you to everyone who participated in the DUU Circuit!

We're now looking forward to 2024, so be on the lookout for the upcoming 2024 circuit! To help us plan that, we want to welcome two new members to the DUU council, bage1 and AIRedzone. Both have been great players and contributors to the tier, and are well deserved council members.

We've also received the first tier shifts after the Indigo Disk DLC! This has brought a ton of new & exciting pokemon to the tier (full list below), so we'll be working in the coming days to get an updated VR out.

Landorus moved from DUU to DOU
Pelipper moved from DUU to DOU
Walking Wake moved from DUU to DOU

Alcremie moved from DOU to DUU
Araquanid moved from DOU to DUU
Arcanine-Hisui moved from DOU to DUU
Armarouge moved from DOU to DUU
Bastiodon moved from DOU to DUU
Bellossom moved from DOU to DUU
Blastoise moved from DOU to DUU
Blaziken moved from DOU to DUU
Cinccino moved from DOU to DUU
Cobalion moved from DOU to DUU
Comfey moved from DOU to DUU
Deoxys moved from DOU to DUU
Deoxys-Defense moved from DOU to DUU
Deoxys-Speed moved from DOU to DUU
Dewgong moved from DOU to DUU
Dodrio moved from DOU to DUU
Electivire moved from DOU to DUU
Emboar moved from DOU to DUU
Entei moved from DOU to DUU
Excadrill moved from DOU to DUU
Exeggutor moved from DOU to DUU
Exeggutor-Alola moved from DOU to DUU
Feraligatr moved from DOU to DUU
Flygon moved from DOU to DUU
Galvantula moved from DOU to DUU
Golurk moved from DOU to DUU
Granbull moved from DOU to DUU
Heatran moved from DOU to DUU
Hitmonchan moved from DOU to DUU
Hitmonlee moved from DOU to DUU
Hitmontop moved from DOU to DUU
Hydrapple moved from DOU to DUU
Iron Boulder moved from DOU to DUU
Iron Bundle moved from DOU to DUU
Iron Crown moved from DOU to DUU
Keldeo moved from DOU to DUU
Kingdra moved from DOU to DUU
Kleavor moved from DOU to DUU
Kommo-o moved from DOU to DUU
Kyurem moved from DOU to DUU
Lanturn moved from DOU to DUU
Lapras moved from DOU to DUU
Latias moved from DOU to DUU
Latios moved from DOU to DUU
Magmortar moved from DOU to DUU
Malamar moved from DOU to DUU
Meganium moved from DOU to DUU
Meowstic moved from DOU to DUU
Metagross moved from DOU to DUU
Minior moved from DOU to DUU
Minun moved from DOU to DUU
Necrozma moved from DOU to DUU
Ninetales-Alola moved from DOU to DUU
Palafin moved from DOU to DUU
Plusle moved from DOU to DUU
Porygon-Z moved from DOU to DUU
Primarina moved from DOU to DUU
Raikou moved from DOU to DUU
Rampardos moved from DOU to DUU
Regice moved from DOU to DUU
Regigigas moved from DOU to DUU
Regirock moved from DOU to DUU
Registeel moved from DOU to DUU
Reuniclus moved from DOU to DUU
Rhyperior moved from DOU to DUU
Roaring Moon moved from DOU to DUU
Sceptile moved from DOU to DUU
Scrafty moved from DOU to DUU
Serperior moved from DOU to DUU
Skarmory moved from DOU to DUU
Smeargle moved from DOU to DUU
Suicune moved from DOU to DUU
Swampert moved from DOU to DUU
Tentacruel moved from DOU to DUU
Terrakion moved from DOU to DUU
Toucannon moved from DOU to DUU
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon moved from DOU to DUU
Venusaur moved from DOU to DUU
Vileplume moved from DOU to DUU
Virizion moved from DOU to DUU
Zebstrika moved from DOU to DUU
 

Actuarily

is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
Moderator
We have updated sample teams for post the Indigo Disk DLC! Thank you to everyone who contributed teams.

We have also updated the Viability Rankings! We voted on everything that was currently on the VR, as well as all new additions to DUU, over 200 pokemon in total. SO big thanks to everyone who voted, the votes are below:
1705546407246.png

1705546473372.png

1705546521967.png

1705546562632.png

1705546596921.png

1705546632155.png

1705546659858.png

New Tiers:
:Thundurus: 3
:Brute Bonnet: 2
:Enamorus: 4
:Garchomp: 5
:Iron Jugulis: 3
:Roaring Moon: 1
:Zapdos: 4
:Arcanine-Hisui: 3
:Azumarill: 5
:Baxcalibur: 2
:Dragapult: 3
:Hoopa-Unbound: 3
:Houndstone: 5
:Iron Moth: 4
:Iron Valiant: 3
:Maushold: 5
:Mew: 3
:Scizor: 5
:Sneasler: 3
:Spectrier: 4
:Sylveon: 5
:Tinkaton: 5
:Wo-Chien: 3
:Arcanine: 4
:Gyarados: 5
:Moltres-Galar: 4
:Regidrago: 5
:Scream Tail: 5
:Skeledirge: 5
:Tsareena: 5
:Volcarona: 5
:Bronzong: 5
:Ceruledge: 5
:Glastrier: 5
:Hariyama: 5
:Hatterene: 4
:Hippowdon: 5
:Hydreigon: 4
:Indeedee: 2
:Iron Leaves: 5
:Iron Treads: 5
:Meowscarada: 5
:Klefki: 5
:Lilligant-Hisui: 5
:Thundurus-Therian: 5
:Zapdos-Galar: 4
:Araquanid: 5
:Armarouge: 3
:Deoxys: 3
:Deoxys-Speed: 4
:Entei: 4
:Excadrill: 4
:Heatran: 2
:Iron Boulder: 4
:Iron Bundle: 3
:Iron Crown: 3
:Keldeo: 5
:Kingdra: 4
:Kleavor: 4
:Kommo-o: 4
:Kyurem: 2
:Latias: 5
:Latios: 4
:Malamar: 5
:Metagross: 3
:Necrozma: 3
:Ninetales-Alola: 3
:Palafin: 2
:Primarina: 4
:Registeel: 5
:Scrafty: 3
:Smeargle: 5
:Suicune: 5
:Terrakion: 5
:Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: 3
:Empoleon: 5
:Garganacl: 4
:Goodra-Hisui: 5
:Great Tusk: 3
:Jirachi: 5
:Manaphy: 4
:Milotic: 5
:Ninetales: 4
:Ogerpon: 5
:Ogerpon-Cornerstone: 2
:Politoed: 3
:Ribombee: 5
:Samurott-Hisui: 4
:Shaymin-Sky: 5
:Ting-Lu: 3
:Weezing: 5
:Weezing-Galar: 5
:Basculegion-F: 2
:Okidogi: 4
 

Actuarily

is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
Moderator
We have the usage stats update for February!

Here are the impacts to DUU:
Entei moved from DUU to DOU
Hatterene moved from DUU to DOU
Iron Crown moved from DUU to DOU
Lilligant-Hisui moved from DNU to DOU
Ninetales-Alola moved from DUU to DOU

Excadrill moved from DOU to DUU
Grimmsnarl moved from DOU to DUU
Pecharunt moved from DOU to DUU
Walking Wake moved from DOU to DUU

If any player needs the challenge code for tour rounds where these changes have not yet gone into effect:

/challenge gen9doublesuu@@@ +Entei, +Hatterene, +Iron Crown, +Lilligant-Hisui, +Ninetales-Alola, -Excadrill, -Grimmsnarl, -Pecharunt, -Walking Wake
 
So I have reached the top 9 in duu ladder, however...
QQ截图20240214175458.png

Edited 3/3/2024:Now I am the top 1 in duu ladder.
QQ图片20240303163213.png

As you might have noticed, my GXE and Glicko-1 are much lower than anyone else around my Elo.What does that mean? That means my Elo has just recently climbed up, at a very rapid pace, so GXE hasn't had enough time to update.
At the same time, I am a really bad player in terms of in-game decision making. I rarely try to read my opponent and almost estimate the damage quite right.
So how did I do that? Well, Actuarily might remember that back in last gen I made a hyper offensive tailwind team, and posted there. He gave quite a positive review to it.
As it turns out, I seem pretty talented at building hyper offensive teams. My improvement at ELO mainly comes from after I started using this team...:
Beat Up Terrakion and Armarouge (pokepast.es)

Yeah, the title basically speaks for itself. It's revolved around using beat up on Terrakion. It's simple, but effective, and brought me straight to 1600+ at the ladder. I believe at least some part of this team is going to move to dou after the next update, so I might as well share it now.
Now I want to discuss some decisions made when building this team.

Maushold and Terrakion are the obvious lead choice. Although you might notice I used Sacred Sword instead of Close Combat on Terrakion, since at +6 Terrakion is vastly overpowered (even though no Atk EVs), Sacred Sword is more than enough at killing anything.
Thunder Wave on Maushold is great at speed control. If the opponent has one pokemon that's faster than you, you can protect+thunder wave for speed control.
Armarouge can benefit from beat up as well, although most of the time its weakness policy is triggered by the foe rather than Maushold, since Maushold almost always dies first.
Unlike Whim+Terrakion though, Maushold+Terrakion is more susceptible to high-speed lead. So the rest of the team is built around counter high speed enemies. With 220 Atk and 252+Spd, Protosynthesis on the Roaring Moon will increase speed instead, ensure it can set up tailwind reliably.
Brute Bonnet is just for its sucker punch and rage powder. The current speed in this meta is just way too high and sucker punch is the last resort to the speed issue.
 
Last edited:
Making this post to say formally: This tier is awful right now. There is a complete imbalance between supporting/threat power and mons that are able to check said threats. Coaching is rampant and needs to be tiered soon, it enables too many of the massive 600 BST behemoths that fall just short of being DOU to completely rip the tier apart, very similarly to how Natdex doubles was laid waste to for months by the enormous stat stick dragons and a few megas with coaching for months. This move exacerbates the volatility in a metagame that has been continually unable to settle for months now, just getting back tyranitar this month and needs to be seriously considered for a ban now.
 
I was going to wait until after DPL is over but it seems the discussion is happening now. There's a massive imbalance between the threats in the tier and the means to check them defensively. It is insanely hard to build while taking into account Roaring Moon, Ogerpon-Cornerstone, Basculegion-F, Baxcalibur, weather, setup (Dragon Dance, Coaching, Iron Defense), hazards, Spore and Trick Room. I do think Coaching is not an issue but more a symptom of the oppression of 5-10 Pokemon whose stats overshadow the rest of the metagame and a ban of said move would do nothing to change the structures of the few currently successful teams.
I have played competitively every SV DOU meta, DUU, NDDOU, DUbers, SS DOU and 2v2 but not once have I said what I am about to say now. I think this tier should be barred from any competitive or teamtour events until some balancing actually occurs. It's that bad.
 

Actuarily

is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
Moderator
The duu council has voted on a couple of Pokemon raised on this thread as potentially problematic. The votes are below:

:Mew:

Actuarily: Do not Ban. Mew is pretty much always running some sort of support set, and there’s tons of faster taunt users (Deo-S, Iron Bundle, Iron Boulder, Sneasler, Iron Valiant, Ogerpon-C, Enamorus, etc.) There’s also a bunch of faster dark & ghost types that can pressure it (Spectrier, Dragapult, Iron Jugulis, Roaring Moon, etc). There’s just plenty of options to shut it down.

AIRedzone: Ban. It enables several forms of nonsense, coaching bulky/fast attackers while shutting opposing offense down with the Wisp + Snarl combo. It compresses too much utility into one slot while sporting respectable bulk and speed.

Bage1: Do not Ban. It compresses a lot of utility and I think it is one of the best mons in the format but as always it suffers from 4mss and it really lacks any offensive presence. It can get overwhelmed or shut down pretty easily by the many fast mons that either threaten it for super-effective damage or can taunt like Act mentioned.

Lord Death Man: Do not ban. Conspicuously absent from multiple DPL weeks, nothing particularly notable about games where it was present nor does it have an unusually problematic winrate.

n10siT: Do not ban. This is a very interesting one, because Mew and Roaring Moon are linked together as they can support one another on the same team and Roaring Moon serves as a check to opposing Mew. I think Roaring Moon is obviously problematic and should be removed ASAP, and without that force in the metagame I think my opinion could be shifted to say that Mew is problematic, and if that happens we can revisit Mew, but currently I agree with bagel’s analysis that it can only do so much with 4 moves and the power level in the tier is so high that Mew’s bulk isn’t unbreakable

Nido-Rus: Ban. I think the more direct issue is coaching in itself, but this is by far the most problematic user. Even with roaring moon banned, I think mew would continue to do extremely dumb (broken) shenanigans with coaching targets like metagross, rockpon, bax, pala, or the more recent drop of ttar makes excadrill or tyranitar great options as well. There’s always ways to shut this down, but most of the fast taunt options just get beat down by existing bulky stat sticks. Item choice is also very annoying to deal with, as mew could just as easily be running covert cloak, safety goggles, just plain sitrus, or even colbur berry recently, and guessing the wrong item provides far too much momentum to the opponent. Too much value and too centralizing/matchup-fishy of a metagame force where managing what mew is doing is the core feature of a lot of games.

RelicanthPrimal: Ban, the only broken coaching user. Combined with other support moves it snowballs its ally a bit too quickly at that bulk and speed tier. Biggest thing keeping it in check is the other broken, moon, with that gone its worse than having both legal prob.
:Roaring Moon:

Actuarily: Ban. While there are some fairies & fighting mons in the tier, each are pretty flawed, and pretty much all of them lose to DD Roaring Moon sets. Then while there are a few intimidate/wisp mons, they all don’t appreciate more support sets like tailwind/taunt. Roaring Moon just has two great sets & is an excellent user of Tera due to its massive bst that it invalidates much of the tier.

AIRedzone: Ban. Unlike the Jugulis of pre-DLC DUU, Moon can reliably set tailwind while also being the best offensive presence in the tier. With a few different set/coverage options and several partners that help it set up, it can quickly overwhelm teams that aren’t packed to the brim with bulk.

Bage1: Ban. Extremely versatile and universally strong no matter what it is doing. Meta-warping to an unhealthy degree.

Lord Death Man: Ban. It warps the meta around itself in obvious ways and sees significant usage with a significant winrate.

n10siT: Ban, one of most busted lasting DUU mons I’ve seen, this is the RM meta currently and it is simply too powerful.

Nido-Rus: Ban. Far and away the most threatening stat stick in the tier, incredibly bulk combined with great utility in tailwind/knock/breaking swipe or just outright breaking power with coaching support and/or DD. Teams revolve entirely around playing with and/or against tailwind sets or DD sets.

RelicanthPrimal: Ban, fastest tw now has insane stats and knock, can even get free sun boost. jugulis was far more manageable with slower speed and less dangerous movepool.
As a result, Roaring Moon has been banned from SV DUU! Tagging dhelmise to implement, thanks!!

Post below your thoughts on this vote, or any other potential elements that may require tiering. It’s possible in the future we may try a suspect laddering process.
 

Actuarily

is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
Moderator
After the conclusion of DPL and the April tier shifts, the DUU council has updated sample teams and viability rankings! Thank you to everyone who contributed to both!

Here's the VR votes below:
1712666668591.png

1712666712677.png

1712666752426.png


:Pecharunt: Pecharunt New -> UR
:Entei: Entei New -> 3
:Iron Crown: Iron Crown New -> 3
:Lilligant-Hisui: Lilligant-Hisui New -> 4
:Indeedee: Indeedee 2 -> 3
:Palafin: Palafin 2 -> 4
:Iron Jugulis: Iron Jugulis 3 -> 2
:Hoopa-Unbound: Hoopa-Unbound 3 -> 5
:Iron Valiant: Iron Valiant 3 -> 4
:Mew: Mew 3 -> 1
:Wo-Chien: Wo-Chien 3 -> 4
:Armarouge: Armarouge 3 -> 4
:Metagross: Metagross 3 -> 2
:Ting-Lu: Ting-Lu 3 -> 2
:Iron Moth: Iron Moth 4 -> 5
:Hydreigon: Hydreigon 4 -> 5
:Deoxys-Speed: Deoxys-Speed 4 -> 5
:Excadrill: Excadrill 4 -> 5
:Kingdra: Kingdra 4 -> 3
:Kommo-o: Kommo-o 4 -> 3
:Garganacl: Garganacl 4 -> 5
:Manaphy: Manaphy 4 -> UR
:Okidogi: Okidogi 4 -> 5
:Houndstone: Houndstone 5 -> UR
:Scizor: Scizor 5 -> 4
:Sylveon: Sylveon 5 -> 4
:Gyarados: Gyarados 5 -> 3
:Regidrago: Regidrago 5 -> 4
:Scream Tail: Scream Tail 5 -> 4
:Skeledirge: Skeledirge 5 -> UR
:Volcarona: Volcarona 5 -> 4
:Ceruledge: Ceruledge 5 -> UR
:Hippowdon: Hippowdon 5 -> UR
:Iron Leaves: Iron Leaves 5 -> UR
:Iron Treads: Iron Treads 5 -> UR
:Keldeo: Keldeo 5 -> UR
:Latias: Latias 5 -> UR
:Malamar: Malamar 5 -> UR
:Suicune: Suicune 5 -> UR
:Terrakion: Terrakion 5 -> UR
:Empoleon: Empoleon 5 -> UR
:Goodra-Hisui: Goodra-Hisui 5 -> UR
:Jirachi: Jirachi 5 -> UR
:Milotic: Milotic 5 -> UR
:Ogerpon: Ogerpon 5 -> 4
:Shaymin-Sky: Shaymin-Sky 5 -> UR
:Weezing: Weezing 5 -> UR
:Weezing-Galar: Weezing-Galar 5 -> UR
:Thwackey: Thwackey UR -> 4
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top